TRANSCRIPT OF TUESDAY, MARCH 19, 2013 JAIL HOUSE INTERVIEW BETWEEN JACKSONVILLE DAILY PROGRESS REPORTER BEN TINSLEY AND ROBERT FOX, WHO IS CURRENTLY INCARCERATED AT THE BRADSHAW STATE JAIL FACILITY IN RUSK COUNTY. AUDIO ONLY. FOX REFUSED TO HAVE HIS IMAGE RECORDED DURING THE CONVERSATION.
Q: Okay I'm talking to Mr. Fox. Can you hear me, Sir?
A: (Unintelligible) Before we start, there's a few issues to begin. Um, Like I said I require a copy of the entire interview and uh, i need to know the purpose of the interview before we start.
Q: We never got your side of things before you were sentenced. And sent here. And I wanted to review some of that to get your side of the issue.
A: Mm. Um, well let's see. How long have you been working at the Jacksonville Progress?
Q: A little under seven months.
A: And did you not know what went on before you arrived?
Q: Actually, no, I had to educate myself from our archives. When you were sentenced and sent off, um, we did a story about it, but since you were in jail we were unable to get your side of things.
A: Who owns the progress?
Q: A company called CNHI.
A: C-N-H-I. Which stands for what?
Q: I couldn't tell you sir. They are the corporate side of things and all I never see of the acronym is on my checks basically. Um, but its uh my editor is Amy Pearson and it is a three person newsroom.
A: ANNIE Pearson.
Q: AMY. A-M-Y.
INTERVIEW PAUSES AS RECORDER IS TURNED OFF, THEN BACK ON
Q: Okay. We're back.
A: Are you aware that (A REPORTER FROM A LOCAL TELEVISION STATION) basically lost her job over this matter?
Q. You mean the coverage of your story?
Q: I did not, no.
A: And, un. I was wondering who is accepting the liability for the lies and falsification of the previous story?
Q: I'm not aware of the story you're speaking of.
(HE HOLDS A COPY OF BEN TINSLEY'S STORY ABOUT HIS SENTENCING TO THE WINDOW OF HIS CELL.)
Q: That's the story that i codlin reach you about. That's the one we got from speaking to law enforcement authorities. If you want to take that point for point. (Raises his voice when Fox indicates he has trouble hearing) IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT POINT FOR POINT, and give your side of things, I'd be happy to put it in the story I'm working on. That's why I'm here.
(TWENTY SECOND PAUSE ON FOX'S PART)
A: Um, I was wondering are you aware of you know that the depths of your participation in what may turnout out to be (unintelligible unintelligible) murder?
Q: I … Have no knowledge of anything you just said, Sir.
(ANOTHER SEVEN SECOND PAUSE)
A: I'm not trying to be offensive or anything but I've been seriously abused. And uh, uh, I want to ask if you believe in the law.
Q. Um, I am a law abiding citizen.
A: And uh, that include public law (he lists an unintelligible number) that says the bible is the word of God.
Q: I don't, I don't discuss religion. I don't let it touch my job. I did not know that statue you just 'quoted.'
A: It is the only law that ever passed in Congress unanimously. Even a declaration of war against Japan did not pass unanimously. When it did signed into law by President Reagan and the only one that did where Congress manifests (unintelligible) word of god. (Unintelligible) in our lives. What has been done against me is basically bearing false witness, one of the ten commandments. And uh, thats covered Deuteronomy 19, verses 15 to 21.
Q: Um, I noticed from the pictures, I saw, I thought you had a beard in the photos we saw of you. Have You shaved?
A: That's part of the punishment (unintelligible) my rights have been violated. There's a distinct possibility I will not survive this ordeal. That's why this thing is (unintelligible) to murder.
Q: Oh. That's the murder to which you referred a minute ago?
Q: They made you cut your hair and they shaved you? Is what you're saying?
A: By (unintelligible) violence and (unintelligible.)
Q: I notice you have your …
A: I've been in the infirmary .. with (unintelligible) has given me heart attacks, congestive heart failure. You know i have suffered (unintelligible)
Q: Well, would you like to discuss your case — what happened? With the charge? … In regard to the case itself and to the House of Israel?
(Fox shows reporter picture through glass)
Q: What am I looking at, Sir?
a: Picture of the former methodist church building in downtown Jacksonville.
Q: I see. Were you intending to buy it?
A: Up for sale in 2007… (unintelligible) Church directorate, cash down payment that was made, and (unintelligible) purchase the building.
Q: And what happened?
A: What happened is immediately after he purchase of the building i was subjected to three SWAT attacks in less than a month. SWAT type attacks because Jacksonville does not have a police department, They have no police department.
Q: What do you mean exactly?
A: What I mean is the public information act request revealed Jacksonville has no police department.
Q: Okay, what about those guys patrolling town and stuff? Are you saying they're unlawful?
A: If a highway patrol office stops you not he highway you must present a driver's license, proof of insurance registration and a state car inspection. Is it okay if you have just one of those things or all of them?
Q: I think you just have the divers license and proof of insurance. I mean, you don't have to have a registration. Not the last time I was pulled over for speeding.
A: They may be after those first two but if you're missing the others there's a problem, too. The point is, that there are certain things that have to be in place in order to have a police department, and the Public Information Act request was made and the response was right from the city of jacksonville, and it showed they did not have a police department properly created under the law.
Q: I see. Um,
A: Racketing organization mercenaries that pretend to be a police department.
Q: You're saying the police officers are actually MERCS?
A: Pardon me?
Q: You're saying the police officers are actually mercenaries?
A: In addition to the issue of the creation of the police department they, none of the police officers, none of them have their ducks in a row, either. All of this you can verify with (lists the name and phone number of an arbitrary person of whom the reporter had never heard). (That person will) explain the whole thing to you in detail. The fact of the matter is that evidence in on the record in the court over all their objections because they didn't want the jury to hear any of this. And the jury did not hear any of this because the judge wouldn't let them hear.
Q: Let me ask you. We've had a couple of e-mails from people who were asking, asking about you? Um, basically wanting to know what the status of the House of Israel is and what your plans are once you're released?
A: The House of Israel is a sign that was put on the door directly across the street from the fire department on main street. You ca go back there an take a look. The sign was put up by Dr. Barry Brooks and the sign was there before i ever came to jacksonville. The story that you ran you know,I understand you may have gotten some the information form the super-liar Reece Daniel, but the fact of the matter is, I didn't start the House of Israel. the House of Israel is in the Bible.
Q: So are you saying that was not the name of the church?
A: That was what Dr. Brooks put on the building.
Q: But it was adopted by your church afterward or not?
A: I was invited there by Dr. Brooks and there were people already there and we studied the bible together you know? With the intent to do right. So thats what we did.
Q: And that's when your involvement with the group started?
A. Yeah. WIth the invitation from Dr. Brooks.
A: But you became, like, the reverend, right?
A: (Loudly sighs) I am not quite clear where you're going with this.
Q: I'm just trying to trace the evolution of the House of Israel. Because when I kind of walked into this movie, everything I read indicated you were a minister of the House of Israel at the time you were last in Jacksonville.
A: (Clears throat). Well, they framed Dr. Brooks and put him in prison and his stand on the law was based on supreme court rulings. And the so-called (trial judge) when Dr. Brooks said the supreme court said such an such (the judge) said, 'Well, I don't believe they said that' when it fact they did. But they framed Dr. Brooks and put him in prison. Dr. Brooks, by the way, Dr. Brooks walks a closer path with our savior than anyone I know. He had a dental clinic he operated for 32 years without any complaint because he was licensed as a dentist. An what he did was discount for everyone. For the poor he did it for free. Now you yourself could come in and just claim to be poor and Dr. Brooks would never question it. He would do dentistry for you.
Q: Okay. We're back. Could you just tell me what this means to you?
A: The supreme court has already ruled that the people in this country are kings and queens without subjects and it's you know, the constitution is a document if you read this last part right here explains it very clearly. (Holds paper up to window for reporter to read.)
(PAUSE IN INTERVIEW)
A: (To reporter) Just read it in into your recorder!
Q 'A constitution is designated as a supreme enactment a fundamental act of legation of the people by the state, the constitution is legation direct from the people acting in their sovereign capacity while the state sanctions legislation from the representatives subject to …" But what does this mean? Boiled down tot his essence. What does this mean?
A: It means the people are the boss. Not the government. The people are the boss. Does that make sense?
Q: It does.
A: Isn't it the people that elect their representatives. The representatives don't elect themselves, right?
Q: Okay: Is this the same philosophy that fuels the sovereign citizens movement and the Republic of Texas? whatever the permutation of that IS these days?
A: That's not our philosophy, it's just a fact, isn't it?
Q: Um, you tell me. I mean, I'm just listening to what you have to say.
A: It's just he way it is. The Supreme Court has ruled constitutionally that people in this country are sovereign. There are other places where there's a King, a Czar, a Shogun, an emperor, whatever. Where that party is the boss. And everybody else is under his boot heel. BUt in this country it was intended to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. IS that not so?
Q: Sounds good. Um, you mentioned, you made allusions to your health while in custody awhile ago. Are you on any medication stye provide you with? Is there anything you need you're not getting there?
A: I had been so radically abused in Cherokee County, that I have had multiple heart attacks. They have hospitalized me at least five times. When I was in Cherokee County. and here (unintelligible) not just stopping in, but in the infirmary bed three times basically in three months.
Q: For what?
A: Well, the first time I tripped because i am not well to start with and I crashed down onto concrete floor and they had to take me into the infirmary. The second time in was in prayer and fasting for thirty days and um, I ended up vomiting blood. There were those who worked in the kitchen who blamed rat feces before, which is why I stopped eating. I mean that's the main reasons. It was just an incentive to do prayer and fasting. When i was sick from ...
A: What was the third time?
A: Second time in infirmity was vomiting blood and then, um, a third time (exclaims whew!) Then um, my leg, my leg because of the congestive heart failure… .. In the free world I know how to handle this stuff, but I am not allowed to get what I need here.
Q: Have they given you, you know, any anti depressants or anything like that?
A: I'm not depressed. I'm um, basically at peace with the situation that in the hands of the Almighty and in His Word he says it will be an 'eye for an eye' a 'foot for a foot,' et cetera, Deuteronomy 19, verses 15 to 21: They have borne false witness against me and uh, I fully believe our Heavenly father doesn't need a police department to enforce his law.
Q: You seem out of it. I guess you seem kind of sleepy. I mean, did i wake you from a nap or something? Is there meds for your heart or whatever? Or ..?
A: I seem sleepy to you?
Q: Little bit. Your eyes are kind of narrowed and uh …
A: Well, they get us up like at 4 in the morning for breakfast and then I had to wait in line at the infirmity and then I had to wait in line outside for legal mail. That was all this morning and uh, other stuff, and uh, you know. It's like, I've already put in basically, an eight hour day. And we're just at noon roughly.
PAUSE IN INTERVIEW.
A: Hang on.
A: I wanted to include in chronological order to help you better underhand what the deal is.
Q: Go ahead.
A: Several sources told me that a lady wanted the church building. This is the article regarding her son's wedding and (unintelligible) here's the judge that put me in here.
Q: (Says name of judge)
Is that the only reason you're showing ..? Okay.
A: And, we know that they are incredible liars. And the way we know this for certainty is they brought nine bogus charges against me. And they were, they got no conviction on number 1, number 2, number 3, number 4, number 5, number 6, number 7, number 8. And on Number Nine they tried me three times.
Q: That was the tampering charge?
A: The tampering charge is bogus. Nonsense. Okay?
A: And the previous eight charges these so called police had to make numerous sworn documents. There has to be sworn documents and probable cause for search and seizure. There has to be a sworn affidavit for various other things. There has to be sworn compaint. So on and so forth. They did three SWAT-type attacks and search and seizures and yielded what? Nothing. No charge whatsoever, no charge worked. worked. Which means all if it was bogus. All eight charges were bogus, okay? And they tried three times on number nine.
Q: The chief also had said in these story he tried to have you deported three times. To Canada?
A: Well, um, let's see. Even the feds tried twice and Rockwall County tried once. Here's the deal on that: You notice I'm still here.
Q: Hah? Oh, you're not deported. Right.
A: When they tried in 1990 it was a matter of clarification because I gave them the straight scoop, I gave them the truth and they tried to deport me on some kind of political maneuver in the background and uh, then when we got that straighter out, I was still here. Then the state department brought up charges against me on actually two federal felonies and they lost on both of them. It's not in any of your stuff probably but its in the federal law books from coast to coast. 'US Versus Fox' (gives an unintelligible case number). And that published opinion says right in it that charge was "inconceivable." That's the exact words used to describe the charges against me.
Q: The chief at one point, actually at several points ..
A: Let me finish.
Q: I'm sorry.
A: The third one was previously Rockwall County and district attorney (unintelligible) took it upon himself to frame me and put me in jail for six months. Later, I turned on the TV news. I made myself dinner and figured I could catch some news and there is (unintelligible) coming from a Dallas courtroom flanked by two deputy sheriffs. (unintelligible) in handcuffs, sentenced to 20 years for framing innocent men, tampering with evidence and coercing his coworkers to perjure themselves.
Q: What I was saying earlier is the chief specifically wrote the state department saying he was concerned that you as a member of the seven movement, the sovereign citizen movement would escalate to some kind of violence?
A: First off, it says in the article I am a member. Where did I show up on a membership roll? And how could I be a member of the sovereign citizen thing when I'm not a citizen?
Q: Okay. Are you affiliated with that group in any way? The sovereign citizens?
A I explained to you that YOU are affiliated with that group. There is, is like 300 million Americans that are affiliated with that group if you will. Who said so? The United States Supreme Court?
Q Okay. Let's nail the term down to 'House of Israel' then. That group that at some point was known as the 'House of Israel' that you prayed with. Those guys. I mean, the chief said he was concerned the group was a haven, instead of being a church, was more of a haven for fugitives and for members of the Sovereign Citizen movement. Is there any truth to that?
A: It's baloney as far as I'm concerned.
Q: Are you affiliated with any group that believes in sovereign citizen rights? Or do you friends or .. We have gotten letters from some people who see you as some kind of folk hero. And my question is, do you have the affiliations they they are talking about in the charges and the stuff they said in the newspaper?
Q: So you are not affiliated with the Republic of Texas, you're not affiliated with the sovereign citizens movement, you're not affiliated with the House of Israel?
A: Okay. Let me explain: I may know Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, uh, even Republic of Texas people. I know all kinds of people, People know me from coast to coast. Now, I am non-political. I have no voters registration, I have no membership in any Republican Party, Democratic Party, Republic of Texas, Libertarian, Sovereign citizen, none of it. I have no membership in any of those organizations.
Q: And you're not a minister with the House of Israel?
(Three second pause)
A: It's,it's just a loosely knit bible study group that, uh, you know we'd get together, and if we could get together, do that.
Q: So there were no fugitives involved?
A: i mean its nice .. Reece Daniel, if you haven't already understood from what i have already explained to you, they created a lie and fabrication they falsify, they are the ones who did genuine tampering with government records.